The gay-bashing capital of Europe

[Ordeet]

The increase in Muslim extremism Europe and the resultant increase in right-wing extremism are both troubling to me, but a country that allows immigrants to terrorize the natives of the country is doomed. Netherlands is one of the hardest countries in the world to immigrate to. I can't imagine for the life of me why they'd be so damned stupid as to allow all these criminals from backwards countries to flood their streets.

More troubling perhaps is the mere thought of possible cooperation between right-wing christian neo-Nazis and right-wing muslim islamofascists. They both have a perceived enemy and hold similar ideals, and in particular target certain groups, such as the Jewish people. In fact, one of my classmates from college told me that he was assaulted in the Netherlands by a gang comprised of both white skinheads and bearded morrocan islamic fundamentalists. They knocked him to the ground because he "looked gay," all the while shouting racial and homophobic slurs as well as things like "Heil Hitler!" and "Allahu Akbar!"

 

[Bismillah]

Are not Pakistani Muslims different then other Muslims in that they have their own caste system

I've never heard of a caste system within Pakistan. Do you mean ethnic strife between people like Pushtons and Phatans?

 

[Ordeet]

Like I said, immigrants from Mexico are just as likely to commit crimes as immigrants from Morocco. The only thing that changes is a government's response to the situation.

This is rather presumptuous of you to assume that an individual of Mexican descent is going to be a criminal just because he is Mexican. Statistically, Latinos are a very law-abiding people and furthermore are not here to try and take over America; rather they add diversity to the American nation, enriching the melting pot that America was and is. Also, you see, crimes committed by Latinos are crimes of poverty.

Let's ask ourselves this: were the 9/11 Hijackers, 7/7 Bombers, Pan-Am Hijackers, and USS Cole Bombers Hispanics coming to share in the diversity of America, or were they arab muslims with an axe to grind with the Free Western World?

[youtube]7AsxYiFSE6s[/youtube]

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

This is rather presumptuous of you to assume that an individual of Mexican descent is going to be a criminal just because he is Mexican. Statistically, Latinos are a very law-abiding people and furthermore are not here to try and take over America; rather they add diversity to the American nation, enriching the melting pot that America was and is. Also, you see, crimes committed by Latinos are crimes of poverty.

Let's ask ourselves this: were the 9/11 Hijackers, 7/7 Bombers, Pan-Am Hijackers, and USS Cole Bombers Hispanics coming to share in the diversity of America, or were they arab muslims with an axe to grind with the Free Western World?

Sorry you just can't say all Muslims who come into our country are Terrorists any more then you can say that all Mexicans are drug runners. Both statements are intolerant.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I've never heard of a caste system within Pakistan. Do you mean ethnic strife between people like Pushtons and Phatans?

No a caste system just like the one that is in India.

 

[Ordeet]

Sorry you just can't say all Muslims who come into our country are Terrorists any more then you can say that all Mexicans are drug runners. Both statements are intolerant.

Not all muslims are terrorists, but most Terrorists are muslims.

 

[Bismillah]

This is rather presumptuous of you to assume that an individual of Mexican descent is going to be a criminal just because he is Mexican.

Presumptous my foot. I didn't state that all Latinos are likely to commit crimes. Just that they are as likely to commit crimes as any other immigrant. I live in Tucson. Please look up the current wanted page for my city and count how many criminals are of Hispanic descent? Does this mean I think all Hispanics are criminals? No, I'm not as shallow as some people I think it is indicative that all immigrants, susceptible to poverty, are at a much higher chance to break the law.

Also, you see, crimes committed by Latinos are crimes of poverty.

What does that mean? If you mean that they steal from banks to pay from bread that is ludicrous. But if you mean that because of the poverty most immigrants face, they are at a higher risk to commit these crimes then I agree. Now show me how Mexicans and Moroccans differ in this respect.

Tell me what is the crime rate in Dearborn Michigan? Please enlighten me on how Islam is implementing sharia within the streets of Detriot

No a caste system just like the one that is in India.

Interesting I've never heard of that before. Are there any articles I can look at to see what it means? I'm still a bit confused by what you mean. A caste system used by some Hindus or a caste system that accords privileges to specific religions?

 

[Kathryn]

But this thread isn't about crime in GENERAL, in Amsterdam or elsewhere - so speaking generally about crime rates in Europe and comparing them to general crime rates in other countries may be interesting - but off topic.

What this thread is discussing is the incidents of violent crime TOWARD GAYS BY MUSLIMS in Amsterdam.

Let's not get sidetracked.

 

[Smoke]

Again all I am interested is any facts that back this story up, because I wasn't able to find them.

That's my point. You weren't about to find any facts, but it didn't stop you from making some up. You might be right for all I know. But I don't think just making up "facts" is a good way to proceed.

 

[Smoke]

But this thread isn't about crime in GENERAL, in Amsterdam or elsewhere - so speaking generally about crime rates in Europe and comparing them to general crime rates in other countries may be interesting - but off topic.

What this thread is discussing is the incidents of violent crime TOWARD GAYS BY MUSLIMS in Amsterdam.

Let's not get sidetracked.

Good point. We had gone off on a tangent.

 

[HonestJoe]

Not all muslims are terrorists, but most Terrorists are muslims.

All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t | loonwatch.com

Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t | loonwatch.com

I'm not claiming these reports are definitive but they do offer strong balance to the perception that we all have. You certainly need to think twice before making definitive statements like " most Terrorists are muslims".

 

[Ordeet]

All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t | loonwatch.com

Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t | loonwatch.com

I'm not claiming these reports are definitive but they do offer strong balance to the perception that we all have. You certainly need to think twice before making definitive statements like " most Terrorists are muslims".

That chart doesn't seem to be very fair. And I must add that it seems like the categories were made ad-hoc through original research (original research isn't always gathered in the most scientific or honest way). Why is there a "left wing extremist" but not a "right wing extremist" category? A "Latino" but no "white" or "East Asian" or "Arab" category? A "Jewish" but no "Christian" category?

Here's a much more "Honest" statistic for you, Joe: Muslims have carried out over 16,000 terrorist attacks since Septemper 11th. From Oct. 02 - Oct. 08 there were 41 Jihad attacks, killig 131 and critically maiming or injuring 266. In September, 2010 there were 172 Jihad Attacks on innocent civilians, including gays and Jews. In 23 countries. Against 5 religions. In September 2010, Muslims killed 703 people and injured 1454. Source: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

 

[Yona]

Another thing I don't understand is how people easily confuse race, religion and nationality. I mean seriously - Islam is obviously not a "race". If I were to convert, it wouldn't magically rewrite my genetic code, now would it.

So this isn't about immigrants from Middle-Eastern countries whom are Muslim coming to Amsterdam and roughing up homosexuals? Yes, you're right, in theory Islam isn't a specific race and anyone can be Muslim but in today's political talks complaints against Muslims are often complaints about Middle-Eastern immigrants, case in point this thread which is why I said this thread is racist along with being ignorant and bigoted. Islam is not to blame here and I am saying this, take that into account.

 

[Kathryn]

Islam doesn't kill people - people kill people, right?

That being said, intolerant PEOPLE who also happen to be MUSLIM are perpetrating acts of violence against gays in Amsterdam. That's the point of the OP - not that "Islam is to blame" or that "Islam is a specific race." Of course it's not a particular race -but it does have an intolerant, radical element which perpetrates violence toward others who don't live as they think they should.

 

[Smoke]

All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t | loonwatch.com

Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t | loonwatch.com

I'm not claiming these reports are definitive but they do offer strong balance to the perception that we all have. You certainly need to think twice before making definitive statements like " most Terrorists are muslims".

That's what we call cherrypicking the data. How about a look at worldwide terrorism? And how about looking at terrorist attacks resulting fatalities, rather than at all criminal activities committed by terrorists?

For instance, in 2006, 65% of the people killed in terrorist attacks were killed in Iraq. And much of the terrorism in the world is Muslim-on-Muslim.

Of the 58,000 people killed or wounded in terrorist attacks around the world in 2006, more than 50 percent were Muslims, the report says, with government officials, police and security guards accounting for a large proportion, the report says.

Sharp rise in terrorist attacks in 2006 - World news - Terrorism - msnbc.com
​

But we are once again wandering from the topic of anti-gay hate crimes.

 

[Yona]

Islam doesn't kill people - people kill people, right?

So how exactly is Islam to blame for this?

That being said, intolerant PEOPLE who also happen to be MUSLIM are perpetrating acts of violence against gays in Amsterdam. That's the point of the OP - not that "Islam is to blame" or that "Islam is a specific race." Of course it's not a particular race -but it does have an intolerant, radical element which perpetrates violence toward others who don't live as they think they should.

I'm not a ******* moron, number one, number two, I read the original post and my comments still stand. My jokes are the summation of your and others comments as well as the original post. You're criticisms of Islam and Islamic culture in this regard are hypocritical and Western nations do not have any basis whatsoever to judge others in terms of being "intolerant, radical elements which perpetrates violence toward others who don't live as they think they should."

You're comments show you don't know much about Islam.

 

[Bismillah]

But this thread isn't about crime in GENERAL, in Amsterdam or elsewhere - so speaking generally about crime rates in Europe and comparing them to general crime rates in other countries may be interesting - but off topic.

What this thread is discussing is the incidents of violent crime TOWARD GAYS BY MUSLIMS in Amsterdam.

I don't think I'm off topic. Treating these crimes as separate from those committed by others isn't going to get us anywhere. And I have already stated that the solution to both is already linked

"I agree

I've worked with many immigrants as well in Arizona ranging from Latinos to Lebanese and most of them tend to be frightened of the changes. It's amazing how much these people really don't know and how much help they need. From learning basic English to how a stove works, it's not surprising that some slip through the cracks. And apparently from the lack of police enforcement in cities like Amsterdam that allows these types of crimes to happen, a large chunk is slipping through the cracks. Helping them situate themselves really increases the chances of the chance that they will pull themselves over the poverty line. It's simple really, the less poverty the less crime. This would be the most pragmatic response I believe to situations like these."

That's my point. You weren't about to find any facts, but it didn't stop you from making some up. You might be right for all I know. But I don't think just making up "facts" is a good way to proceed.

I didn't make up any facts. But, those claiming that there are a frequent number of reported hate crimes against gays perpetuated by Muslim immigrants need to bring facts to prove their argument.

I did however find this, which is indicative that the crime rate in Amsterdam is not any higher than that of any other city and much lower than my own.

Compared to other countries such as the USA, the crime policies of Netherlands are extremely lenient. Where one may be shocked about the leniency towards criminals, the crime rate in the Netherlands is generally low, especially when compared to other European countries with tougher crime policies such as the UK. Indeed in the UK they have found that 60% of inmates in British jails had served a jail sentance previously. Even in the USA where there is a prevalent view that crime is rampant in Amsterdam, the rate of deaths caused by crime rate was 1.22% per 100,000, where as in the USA it is 8.22% (1996).

All Amsterdam - How safe is Amsterdam?

Until there are some statistics that record the number of crimes committed by such immigrants, it's foolish to assert that even radical Muslims are perpetuating a disproportionate number of crimes. From what I've gathered this is a universal phenomena. First generation immigrants are always at a higher risk to commit crimes.

 

[Kathryn]

So how exactly is Islam to blame for this?



I'm not a ******* moron, number one, number two, I read the original post and my comments still stand. My jokes are the summation of your and others comments as well as the original post. You're criticisms of Islam and Islamic culture in this regard are hypocritical and Western nations do not have any basis whatsoever to judge others in terms of being "intolerant, radical elements which perpetrates violence toward others who don't live as they think they should."

You're comments show you don't know much about Islam.

Your comments are unnecessarily inflammatory. Why are you cussing and acting like I accused you of being a moron? (I didn't, for the record, but a post or two more like yours and I might reconsider.)

What, in particular, do you disagree with about this statement, as pertaining to Muslims in Amsterdam attacking gays?

"intolerant, radical elements which perpetrate violence toward others who don't live as they think they should."

And I've never blamed Islam for their actions - I blame them personally.

 

[Smoke]

I'm not a ******* moron

It's really hard to tell.

You're criticisms of Islam and Islamic culture in this regard are hypocritical and Western nations do not have any basis whatsoever to judge others in terms of being "intolerant, radical elements which perpetrates violence toward others who don't live as they think they should."

Hogwash. One person's act of violence doesn't justify another person's unrelated act of violence.

 

[darkendless]

I'm not a ******* moron, number one, number two, I read the original post and my comments still stand. My jokes are the summation of your and others comments as well as the original post. You're criticisms of Islam and Islamic culture in this regard are hypocritical and Western nations do not have any basis whatsoever to judge others in terms of being "intolerant, radical elements which perpetrates violence toward others who don't live as they think they should."

You're comments show you don't know much about Islam.

Don't be so sure. Instead of acknowledging facts that certain muslims have proven to be a problem for specific groups in Europe you play the race card and consider this an attack against islam. Wow.... because this forum hasn't seen that before

This isn't a thread about Islam the religion. There is a violence issue with muslim youths. Like i said before, go to Goppingen Germany and ask them who the problem is. They're not radical but they are intolerant and creating hatred between German Germans and Muslim Germans. Ouch am i being racist again?

You obviously havn't been in such a situation to actually judge. Perhaps get off your high horse and acknowledge that many countries inside and outside of Europe have trouble with specifically muslim youths. Its amusing to watch people like you try and bring Islam in general into the debate. Its as if because they're muslims they can't come under any criticism. Thats whats wrong with a lot of people today. They're afraid of being called racist for pointing out and attempting to deal with minorities.

Perhaps in your ideal world racism would be reserved for white people only? All i can say is pull your head out of the sand mate and get off your high horse.