Transgenders

[Penumbra]

Why would homosexuality be compared to cheating on a spouse?

In order to set up homosexuality in a discussion as something has to be "justified" or "avoided" or "unhealthy", one would actually have to demonstrate that it's bad in any way.

Just about any argument against homosexuality is religiously based rather than based on facts, research, or real-life experiences. Same thing for arguments against transgendered people.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Just about any argument against homosexuality is religiously based rather than based on facts, research, or real-life experiences. Same thing for arguments against transgendered people.

Or "ewwwwwwww" if it's not religiously based...

 

[Penumbra]

Or "ewwwwwwww" if it's not religiously based...

Which might have been how the 'religiously based' prohibitions against it began anyway. It's probably the more fundamental reason.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Which might have been how the 'religiously based' prohibitions against it began anyway. It's probably the more fundamental reason.

Either way it's rather childish.


Scratch that, it's not even childish! I am yet to meet a child that naturally has a problem with homosexuality/transgenders...

Edit: I wouldn't even call it primitive, as homophobia seems to be a more modern creation....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Edit: I wouldn't even call it primitive, as homophobia seems to be a more modern creation....

Much like transphobia, it has existed, but in many places it really wasn't thought of as anything special. Many Native American tribes though did hold transsexuals in very high regards. It most certainly is a cultural thing though.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

You really don't need to convince me of this. I do believe you. Every married man or woman has at one time probably felt the urge to have sex with someone other than their spouse. Just because one feels an inclination/desire does not mean that it is necessarily healthy to pursue.

Again, not in the same camp. The "urge" to love your spouse is the exact same "urge" you believe exists with homosexuality.

In other words, it isn't an "urge" at all. It's a profound and deeply ingrained instinct toward pair-bonding, but is a same sex attraction rather than a hetero attraction. Which is the only difference.

If you'd like to discuss polyamory, I'm game for that too. But that is an entirely different discussion.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Either way it's rather childish.


Scratch that, it's not even childish! I am yet to meet a child that naturally has a problem with homosexuality/transgenders...

Edit: I wouldn't even call it primitive, as homophobia seems to be a more modern creation....

Young children are naturally curious, and most often base their judgement on what their parents say and do. Once they become teenagers, they tend to base their judgement on what their peers say and do.

I agree with you however, and that children naturally do not have a problem with homosexuality/transgenders.

 

[painted wolf]

My spouse is a transwoman.

She has never been happier in her life than she is now.

We were very lucky with her transition... she had no serious problems with work, family or friends.

I also know several transpeople who have had the opposite experience, which is heartbreaking.

wa:do

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Again, not in the same camp. The "urge" to love your spouse is the exact same "urge" you believe exists with homosexuality.

In other words, it isn't an "urge" at all. It's a profound and deeply ingrained instinct toward pair-bonding, but is a same sex attraction rather than a hetero attraction. Which is the only difference.

If you'd like to discuss polyamory, I'm game for that too. But that is an entirely different discussion.

This isn't rocket science. I understand exactly what you're telling me. It's a matter of intensity. You're saying that the feeling of attraction toward people of the same sex is as intense as what heterosexuals feel for the opposite sex. Which is pretty freakin intense. I don't deny that people, if they were born with such urges for the same sex, were dealt a lousy hand. It would have to be nearly unbearble to deny oneself for a lifetime if the feelings are that intense. Nevertheless, I believe with God all things are possible.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

My spouse is a transwoman.

She has never been happier in her life than she is now.

We were very lucky with her transition... she had no serious problems with work, family or friends.

I also know several transpeople who have had the opposite experience, which is heartbreaking.

wa:do

One would have to think that it wouldn't be a recipe for a longlasting marriage for one of the partners to one day decide they want to live as the "opposite" sex, expecially if it entailed surgery between the legs.

 

[painted wolf]

One would have to think that it wouldn't be a recipe for a longlasting marriage for one of the partners to one day decide they want to live as the "opposite" sex, expecially if it entailed surgery between the legs.

Well, we've been together for almost 16 years... so maybe your recipe is off. :sarcastic

wa:do

edited to add: the fact that you think someone "just decides" to transition "one day" shows that you have a lot to learn about transgendered people and their experiences.

 

[methylatedghosts]

This isn't rocket science. I understand exactly what you're telling me. It's a matter of intensity. You're saying that the feeling of attraction toward people of the same sex is as intense as what heterosexuals feel for the opposite sex. Which is pretty freakin intense. I don't deny that people, if they were born with such urges, were dealt a lousy hand. It would have to be nearly unbearble to deny oneself for a lifetime if the feelings are that intense. Nevertheless, I believe with God all things are possible.

Yeah, it's pretty lousy to be born with the urge to be with someone of the opposite sex.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Well, we've been together for almost 16 years... so maybe your recipe is off. :sarcastic

wa:do

edited to add: the fact that you think someone "just decides" to transition "one day" shows that you have a lot to learn about transgendered people and their experiences.

I'm not getting into the psychology of a person that sees themselves as the opposite gender of what their body tells them they are. I just figure life in the bedroom for a heterosexual woman would take a turn for the worse if their husband decided he didn't want his male parts anymore

 

[painted wolf]

I'm not getting into the psychology of a person that sees themselves as the opposite gender of what their body tells them they are. I just figure life in the bedroom for a heterosexual woman would take a turn for the worse if their husband decided he didn't want his male parts anymore

Your idea of what is possible in the bedroom is rather limited then.

Nor is a healthy relationship based solely on sexual gratification.

wa:do

 

[Shadow Wolf]

One would have to think that it wouldn't be a recipe for a longlasting marriage for one of the partners to one day decide they want to live as the "opposite" sex, expecially if it entailed surgery between the legs.

My girlfriend was with me for four years after I came out to her, and it wasn't the reason we broke up.
And it's not a "just decide." My experience, which is quite typical, is that for many years I struggled with my identity, many times decided I was going to transition and turned back, purged and denied myself, and it was only after many years of anguish from beating myself up mentally did I decide I had had enough and I had to be me. My girlfriend was actually very understanding and supportive when I came out to her, and she even helped me with clothes and makeup.

I'm not getting into the psychology of a person that sees themselves as the opposite gender of what their body tells them they are.

Why not? If you really want to, I have spent the past few years studying psychology, with an emphasis on issues of sex and gender. I could probably write a text book with what's in my head alone.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Your idea of what is possible in the bedroom is rather limited then.

Nor is a healthy relationship based solely on sexual gratification.

wa:do

Of course if you're bisexual all bets are off

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Of course if you're bisexual all bets are off

It's not just about sex. Violence and intolerance towards transsexuals is so severe that even significant others have been harassed, beaten, and even killed. Actually to be romantically involved with a transsexual takes about as strong of a character as it does to actually transition. From the perspective of many, it's no different than being gay.

 

[Penumbra]

I don't deny that people, if they were born with such urges for the same sex, were dealt a lousy hand.

Who says that homosexuals were dealt a lousy hand?

As far as I can tell the only thing that disadvantages them is homophobia and general discrimination. Nothing inherent.

I'm not getting into the psychology of a person that sees themselves as the opposite gender of what their body tells them they are.

That's good because it makes sense to read about it first.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Who says that homosexuals were dealt a lousy hand?

As far as I can tell the only thing that disadvantages them is homophobia and general discrimination. Nothing inherent.


That's good because it makes sense to read about it first.

Are you really telling me that someone who has had over 50 sex partners has really found contentment? That type of behavior just screams unsatisfaction. i put it this way because though homosexuals are a community known for having a rather loose definition of monogamy, I don't want to single them out. There are heterosexuals who behave like this as well. I'd say this type of behavior on a wide scale indicates that people aren't handling their bodies according to factory specs

 

[Penumbra]

Are you really telling me that someone who has had over 50 sex partners has really found contentment? That type of behavior just screams unsatisfaction. i put it this way because though homosexuals are a community known for having a rather loose definition of monogamy, I don't want to single them out. There are heterosexuals who behave like this as well. I'd say this type of behavior on a wide scale indicates that people aren't handling their bodies according to factory specs

There is so much generalization and moving the goal posts here.

You said people with same sex attraction were dealt a lousy hand, to which I asked why they would possibly be considered as having been dealt a lousy hand outside of the discrimination they face from heterosexuals. To which you replied "are you really telling me that someone who has had over 50 sex partners has really found contentment?"

What in the world does that have to do with my post?