hello J Hawes
I think you better take things in context
As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him" 1 Corinthians 8:4-6.
Chapter eight of Corinthians is about things offered to idols. These idols (things living or imagined) were called gods. So in a sense these idols were and are peoples gods. Though there be gods many and lords many (for men serve other lords and gods) there is still but one God, and no more than one, at least for Christians, Jews and Muslims.
This Chapter itself has nothing to do with Christians being gods. It is fascinating how some can read into the scripture what is not there."
You seem to take verse 6 to mean that if we only have one God, then no others are truly gods, but are false. This is a very inconsistent and weak argument considering that that same verse describes Jesus as our one Lord. So were the two angels who went to Lot FALSE lords, or did Lot mistake them for Jesus? Gen 19:2 Was Abrahams servant a FALSE lord, or did Rebecca mistake him for Jesus? Gen 24:18 Was Abraham a lord or not? 1 Pet 3:6; Gen 23:6, 11, 15. What about Laban? Gen 31:35.
So if there can be other lords who are [not false, but] genuine lords in addition to the one Lord Jesus Christ, there can be others who truly are gods beside the one God Jehovah. Just as the lordship of Jesus is in a different class from that of other lords, it doesnt mean that the others are not truly lords, does it? A similar comment could be made about the Fathers Godship being in a class different to that of other gods; but it doesnt refute that they truly are other gods anymore than it refutes that they are many lords!
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Paul said that people have many gods (idols- not real). People even have gods of heaven "the sky" such as birds and fowls. However there is only one true God. Notice that Paul said that they are "called gods" not that they are gods. If you're going to quote something, quote it in context.
Actually, Paul did say that they ARE gods: hosper [even-as] eisin [ARE] theoi [gods] polloi [many]!
I am wondering how you got idols in the sky. Are there carved statues in the sky? Since when did birds become idols? When you see a dove flying through the air, Im sure you dont say: Look! There goes an idol. In fact, the Bible says that idols cannot speak, cannot see, cannot hear, cannot smell, cannot feel, cannot walk, and can utter no speech with their throat, yet you have that they can fly in heaven? Ps 15:4-7. Birds and fowl can do all these things, hence, these certainly are not the idols you claim Paul was talking about! The chapter doesnt even mention fowl and birds, so it is YOU that needs to take things in context, ok?
And what is it in this context that tells you that Paul meant the sky anyway? Paul said heaven, not the sky, so if you want to interpret it as the bright blue sky where the airplanes and birds fly, you must have some justification from the CONTEXT to support it. [ie Gen 1:20 tells of birds flying in the heavens, thus we have contextual reason for saying that this heaven is the sky; can you bring CONTEXTUAL reasons for saying so at 1 Cor 8:5?]
As for the previous you mast have a understand of what Elohim means. Elohim is a name given to God to experss his office as a judge.
. In A Dictionary of the Bible, William Smith says: The fanciful idea that [elo·him´] referred to the trinity of persons in the Godhead hardly finds now a supporter among scholars. It is either what grammarians call the plural of majesty, or it denotes the fullness of divine strength, the sum of the powers displayed by God.
The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures says of elo·him´: It is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. To illustrate this, the title elo·him´ appears 35 times by itself in the account of creation, and every time the verb describing what God said and did is singular. (Genesis 1:12:4) Thus, that publication concludes: [Elo·him´] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty.
Elo·him´ means, not persons, but gods. So those who argue that this word implies a Trinity make themselves polytheists, worshipers of more than one God. Why? Because it would mean that there were three gods in the Trinity. But nearly all Trinity supporters reject the view that the Trinity is made up of three separate gods.
The Bible also uses the words elo·him´ and elo·heh´ when referring to a number of false idol gods. (Exodus 12:12; 20:23) But at other times it may refer to just a single false god, as when the Philistines referred to Dagon their god [elo·heh´]. (Judges 16:23, 24) Baal is called a god [elo·him´]. (1 Kings 18:27) In addition, the term is used for humans. (Psalm 82:1, 6) Moses was told that he was to serve as God [elo·him´] to Aaron and to Pharaoh.Exodus 4:16; 7:1.
Obviously, using the titles elo·him´ and elo·heh´ for false gods, and even humans, did not imply that each was a plurality of gods; neither does applying elo·him´ or elo·heh´ to Jehovah mean that he is more than one person, especially when we consider the testimony of the rest of the Bible on this subject.
Also, Vines Epository Dictionary of Old and NT Words gives the plural of majesty as its definition of elohim;
from what source do you derive the office of judge as a definition of elohim? Id be interested in seeing your reference for that! I gave you mine.
When applied to humans such as in Psalms 82, and to Moses, it's meaning is as expressed by the name. Moses was made a judge over the Pharoah.
Where is it written that Moses JUDGED Pharoah? Again, where is your evidence that elohim means to be judge? The angels are called elohim in the Hebrew text of Ps 8:5; are the angels judges? Whom do they judge? Elohim means God/gods; it was Jehovah who called them gods at Ps 8:5, not human worshippers, so if God calls them gods, they are gods. Case closed.
And the Judges of Israel are called ELOHIM "gods." They are not gods, but merely judges who represent God.
I MYSELF [God] have said, You ARE gods, and all of you ARE sons of the Most High. So if you deny that they are gods, maybe you deny that they are sons of the Most High!
It was Jehovah who called them gods, and I tend to believe Jehovah. Jehovah said to Eve you will positively die, Satan said you positively will not die. Gen 2:17; 3:4. Jehovah said you ARE gods, JayHawes said they ARE NOT gods, who am I to believe? Ill go with Jehovah!
Elohim is tranaslted as judges in Exodus 21:6. These judges were called Elohim, expressing the office of a judge. Pslams 82 has nothing to do with anybody being gods,
Guess you dont think it has anything to do with anybody being sons of the Most High either, even though God said it. YOUR translators chose to render elohim as gods in Ps 82:1, 6. Are you disagreeing with your own translation of the Bible?
My Bible has God [elohim] at Exo 21:6, not judges. What proof did your translators give for changing the meaning from god, gods to judges? In any case, they arent being consistent! Maybe they should have written that In the beginning judges created the heavens and the earth Gen 1:1 to be consistent with this theory; but then again, you are the one arguing that elohim means judges at Ps 82. Your own Scholars have not so translated it; they rendered it as what they think it means, and the word they used is gods! So again; if you want to deny that it means gods at Ps 82:1, 6, you are denying a plain Biblical statement.
If he calls them gods when they are not gods, then God is lying. When he calls them sons of the Most High, he surely meant what he said, or was he joking there as well? I accept BOTH statements; I dont pick and choose which parts of Gods word to believe!
it is a Psalm of condemnation of the bad judges of Israel. Today 04:05 AM JayHawes This is a lost cause trying to explain such things to everyone. SOme things can only be understood overtime, or through study and revelation.
Gonna take me OVERTIME to figure out how you can reason that way with a straight face! If God says ye ARE gods, then ye ARE gods! Its a lost cause trying to explain what couldnt be stated anymore clearly.
Question though; if they really were gods, how much plainer would you have said it?