UK PM Rishi Sunak: "A man is a man, and a woman is a woman, that's just common sense"

[icehorse]

1. I feel very positive about my universal access healthcare system, in general.

I feel we mostly have honorable providers saddled with a broken, profiteering-based system

3. If different doctors have different opinions, then I would look to the consensus, and the body of evidence by which they are in agreement upon.

In the US, medical consensus isn't nearly as robust a process as we might imagine.

4. Puberty blockers may not either be reversible or safe, if the latter, than any victim of malpractice has a tort claim for negligence in most civil legal systems. As for the former. That must surely be a fact that is quite obvious to the person undergoing gender transition treatments and surgical procedures.

I think in the coming years we will see an avalanche of such claims. A few have already happened. As for obviousness, I think a lot of the side effects are subtle, or slow-moving and far from obvious.

5. I have no issue with transgender rights and protections, I have every faith in people (including young people) to know what is best for themselves. I do not feel others can or should attempt to interfere in any long term decisions people make, that relate to their own bodies and minds. Unless there is very good reason. I don't see one here.

One bit of scientific consensus that's quite strong is that young people really do not have the necessary cognitive skills to imagine long-term, life changing decisions.

 

[Little Dragon]

One bit of scientific consensus that's quite strong is that young people really do not have the necessary cognitive skills to imagine long-term, life changing decisions.

That is surely taken into consideration? Hence processes and procedures. Evaluations etc..

 

[icehorse]

That is surely taken into consideration? Hence processes and procedures. Evaluations etc..

Sadly, the profiteers have infected this area as well. I just did a search on the phrase "rapid trans counseling".

There are now many companies in the business of more or less rubber-stamping doctor's notes to allow for things like puberty blockers

Here's one example, there are many more:

https://www.pridecounseling.com/get-started/?utm_source=AdWords&utm_medium=Search_PPC_c&utm_term=transgender+therapy_b&utm_content=143051949317&network=g&placement=&target=&matchtype=b&utm_campaign=18781473351&ad_type=text&adposition=&kwd_id=kwd-21420163&gclid=CjwKCAjw-KipBhBtEiwAWjgwrPj9V0JPs-IhGhUtUHsBk1e0jH663EVGCyiRlNUvZjDVAzW-52sndBoC5O8QAvD_BwE&not_found=1&gor=start_go&go=true

 

[Little Dragon]

Sadly, the profiteers have infected this area as well. I just did a search on the phrase "rapid trans counseling".

There are now many companies in the business of more or less rubber-stamping doctor's notes to allow for things like puberty blockers

Here's one example, there are many more:

https://www.pridecounseling.com/get-started/?utm_source=AdWords&utm_medium=Search_PPC_c&utm_term=transgender+therapy_b&utm_content=143051949317&network=g&placement=&target=&matchtype=b&utm_campaign=18781473351&ad_type=text&adposition=&kwd_id=kwd-21420163&gclid=CjwKCAjw-KipBhBtEiwAWjgwrPj9V0JPs-IhGhUtUHsBk1e0jH663EVGCyiRlNUvZjDVAzW-52sndBoC5O8QAvD_BwE&not_found=1&gor=start_go&go=true

If I were to accept your reference and comments at face value, and I see no reason not to. Then that is not in my view desirable. That is malpractice.

 

[Drunk_Uncle_Bob]

Well I strongly disagree with your 2nd sentence (in bold), and most of the women I've talked to in person share my stance.

IMO, to say that "trans women are women" is extremely misogynistic and dangerous. And it's right out of the book 1984, it's doublethink.

And, I'm pretty sure you disagree

People can have their opinions. Even if they are wrong. Hopefully you see the light one day.


What, in those same opinions, is the function of doublethink in the 1984 book? It wasn't just a snazzy term and nor was it a one to one example of real life events. But it did cover a specific and important aspect of the story. If you'd like to go ham on explaining that the floor is yours.

 

[Altfish]

Talk amongst yourselves:

If a Tory MP says it, it is almost certainly false.

 

[icehorse]

People can have their opinions. Even if they are wrong. Hopefully you see the light one day.

What, in those same opinions, is the function of doublethink in the 1984 book? It wasn't just a snazzy term and nor was it a one to one example of real life events. But it did cover a specific and important aspect of the story. If you'd like to go ham on explaining that the floor is yours.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you think that on the topic of misogyny, a handful of noisy trans activists are correct, and millions of women are wrong. Is that your claim?

As for doublethink, hmmm. I'm sure you do not agree with me, but are you really saying you cannot connect the dots here? In other words, if someone - hypothetically - offered you $1000 to steelman my position, are you saying you couldn't do it?

 

[icehorse]

If a Tory MP says it, it is almost certainly false.

Perhaps the clearest ad hominem I've ever seen, congrats! (I guess?)

The point here is to debate / discuss the validity of the claim. Because the claim ought to stand or fall on its own merits, correct?

 

[Little Dragon]

If a Tory MP says it, it is almost certainly false.

True. You can always tell when they're either lying or dog whistling, their lips move.

 

[Little Dragon]

Perhaps the clearest ad hominem I've ever seen, congrats! (I guess?)

Thoroughly deserved in the case of the hopelessly corrupt and laughably inept Conservative Party of the United Kingdom.

 

[England my lionheart]

Talk amongst yourselves:

It’s pretty straightforward,if your a man you shouldn’t be in ladies spaces like toilets or female competitions even if you wear a pink tutu and pink slippers you are still biologically a male,surgery and medication will not change that fact so instead of imposing trans on everyone why not find your own niche in life.

 

[Little Dragon]

so instead of imposing trans on everyone

How are you imposed upon in daily life by transsexuals?

 

[icehorse]

Thoroughly deserved in the case of the hopelessly corrupt and laughably inept Conservative Party of the United Kingdom.

way to stay on topic!

 

[icehorse]

How are you imposed upon in daily life by transsexuals?

I won't speak for @England my lionheart.

Once again - with jazz hands - please try your hardest to distinguish between trans people and trans activists. Pretty please?

Trans activists are pushing the claim (amongst others), that "a trans woman is a woman". How does this claim benefit individual trans people?

I believe this claim spreads ill-will towards trans people, and I know it negatively impacts the women in my life.

 

[Little Dragon]

way to stay on topic!

Rishi is an MP and a Conservative MP. No less. So I dunno, certainly relevant.

 

[Little Dragon]

Trans activists are pushing the claim (amongst others), that "a trans woman is a woman". How does this claim benefit individual trans people?

How does it (The Claim) hurt individual non trans people?

Like me?

 

[England my lionheart]

How are you imposed upon in daily life by transsexuals?

I’m not personally but women are,it’s been a long hard journey for women to even get near being equal in the west but they are expected to allow biological men into their spaces,sport for example is a no brained but also privacy.

 

[Little Dragon]

I’m not personally but women are,it’s been a long hard journey for women to even get near being equal in the west but they are expected to allow biological men into their spaces,sport for example is a no brained but also privacy.

Some competitive sports maybe. Anything else?

 

[icehorse]

How does it (The Claim) hurt individual non trans people?

Like me?

I don't know who you are. But I'm quite certain the claim is misogynistic.

 

[Little Dragon]

I don't know who you are. But I'm quite certain the claim is misogynistic.

I am non trans. I identify with the original unaltered gender entry on my birth certificate.

Misogynistic? Can you elucidate? Do not trans men exist too? Is that also misogynistic to call them men? How?