Why does God care about Homosexuality?

[mcteethinator]

yes, anything above the normal width of an average penis will stretch the muscles, and copious amounts of anal sex will damage those muscles. other than that, you are not at high risk of damaging them.

as for diseases, there are risks with any sexual actions. straights and gays are equally at risk of getting infections and STD's if they are not clean and responsible.

the only problem i have with your argument is that it is not a moral argument against homosexuality, and i think God should have a clear moral argument to condemn homosexuality.

That's gonna be hard since there is none.

 

[Mike182]

That's gonna be hard since there is none.

there are no moral arguments to condemn homosexuality?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

***MOD ADVISORY***

Please be civil while debating this issue.

Thanks,
A_E

 

[.lava]

as for diseases, there are risks with any sexual actions. straights and gays are equally at risk of getting infections and STD's if they are not clean and responsible.

the only problem i have with your argument is that it is not a moral argument against homosexuality, and i think God should have a clear moral argument to condemn homosexuality.

disease i talk about could only happen cos of having analsex. i donot know its name.
i see your point. having one night stands or having no protection could cause serious problems.

i am not willing to offend anyone. i am religious. if Allah forbids something, i could think about it to understand. but even if i didnot get it i would still follow commands anyway because i trust God. i didnot think about homosexuality as much as i said here. i thought about it because i talk to you. i try to understand why. that's what i understand so far. it is not appear to be a moral arguement, because if its forbidden there must be a reason other than that. commands are for goodness of people. God isnot sadistic, commanding random rules without reason just to try people. that's never how it is.

 

[Smoke]

i say it is not good because i met people both men and women who's having physical problems because of it. it damages the muscles inside anus. for women there could be disease inside womb as well if couple didnot care about hygiene. this stuff doesnot happen with straight couples having ordinary sex.

I don't believe you. I've met thousands of gay men, and don't know of a single one one with damaged sphincter muscles. I've met hundreds of lesbians, and don't know of a single one with "disease inside the womb" as a result of lesbian sex.

 

[Reverend Rick]

i don't think it is possible to be a couple and have platonic love. makes no sense.

You better look into the future. Yes, I know there are drugs, but some older people are not healthy enough to have sex, drugs or no drugs.

Many couples have been together for 50 or 60 years. Imagine loving someone that long and not having sex for 20 or more years.

There is much more to relationships than sex. What if you were young and something happened to you or your wife where it was not possible to have sex anymore? Even if you were some what older and had children and grand children and a nice home and could not have sex any more, is it time to leave?

 

[Mike182]

disease i talk about could only happen cos of having analsex. i donot know its name.
i see your point. having one night stands or having no protection could cause serious problems.

i am not willing to offend anyone. i am religious. if Allah forbids something, i could think about it to understand. but even if i didnot get it i would still follow commands anyway because i trust God. i didnot think about homosexuality as much as i said here. i thought about it because i talk to you. i try to understand why. that's what i understand so far. it is not appear to be a moral arguement, because if its forbidden there must be a reason other than that. commands are for goodness of people. God isnot sadistic, commanding random rules without reason just to try people. that's never how it is.

well, i personally don't see any goodness in gay people suppressing their sexuality for any reason, but i support your right to hold your beliefs so long as gay people are not being unfairly treated.

 

[.lava]

I don't believe you. I've met thousands of gay men, and don't know of a single one one with damaged sphincter muscles. I've met hundreds of lesbians, and don't know of a single one with "disease inside the womb" as a result of lesbian sex.

you don't believe me and what can i do about it? it is ok.
btw i wasnot talking about lesbians. was talking about straight couple.

 

[PyroPathos]

Story time.

One of my best friends in the entire world came out to me about 4 years ago. I was the only person he had ever told about his homosexuality and it sounded like he was going to cry on the phone. He was so afraid. He grew up in a Catholic family and was raised to love God like any good Christian. When he found himself attracted to other guys at the start of puberty he was terrified of being disowned, damned to Hell, and rejected. He tried in vain to "change himself" and like girls, but to no avail.

He was eventually so distraught by his secret that he was nearly driven to suicide. He wrote his goodbye note, apologized to his parents for being a sin and disappointment, and went up to his room to end it. The sound of his parents' car pulling into the driveway ended his attempt. Their movie had been cancelled (actually cancelled, I can't remember why), something which hardly ever happens in my experience. It's almost like his God was telling him not to die for this supposed "sin."

After this experience he tried to cope with his feelings of Christianity and his homosexuality. He was still miserable and confused, and I am honored to this day that I was the one he chose to confide in first.

Since then he has come out to more friends, and eventually to his parents. All of our friends held our breaths when we heard he broke the news... but you know the most wonderful thing? His parents accepted him. Sure it was hard. No one can say it would be easy for Christian parents to hear something like that. To quote his Dad, "Oh, is that it? It'll take a lot more than that to make me hate you."

I think this acceptance and ability to love and understand has the mark of the divine written all over it, IMHO.

Since then I'm happy to say he's really come to terms with himself and blossomed into a very outgoing, friendly, and wonderful guy. He's accepted himself for who he is, and who he was born to be... I truly believe that sexual orientation is sometimes not something we can control. Sure, someone may decide to go "bi-curious" and try out bisexuality or homosexuality to see if it's for them. But for my friend and millions of other people worldwide, homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle choice... it's in your biology.

This is why I believe that if there is a God up there, he would lean WAY more towards the "love all creatures" and much farther away from "homosexuality is a sin." I believe any kind of love is preferable to hate.

[That was a REALLY long story. Sorry! I hope it made a difference to someone out there.]

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

God doesn't want their cooties to spread to heterosexuals and thus destroy traditional, "Leave it to Beaver" families.

Was a double entendre intended there? I've got an image in my head now of that being used as a slogan in posters that anti-homosexuality groups would put up in gay neighborhoods: "Don't go to the sausage party! Leave it to Beaver!"

Oh dear. That was very vulgar. Bad penguin.

To be honest, the best answer I can give though is that men and women and sex and all that, despite being pleasurable, were made by God to reproduce. If I made two types of animals that were made to reproduce, and then one type just started mating with their same type, I'd be pretty annoyed but I probably wouldn't be as ****** as God seems to be about it.

If failing to reproduce directly is what gets God mad at homosexuals, I shudder to think of what kind of wrath he'll rain down on bees: they've only got one breeding female per hive; the vast majority of them don't reproduce at all.

i say it is not good because i met people both men and women who's having physical problems because of it. it damages the muscles inside anus. for women there could be disease inside womb as well if couple didnot care about hygiene. this stuff doesnot happen with straight couples having ordinary sex.

Yes, it does. The leading cause of cervical cancer is the Human Pappilomavirus (HPV). HPV is spread almost exclusively by heterosexual sex.

IIRC, unhygienic men can also give women yeast infections.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

He was eventually so distraught by his secret that he was nearly driven to suicide. He wrote his goodbye note, apologized to his parents for being a sin and disappointment, and went up to his room to end it. The sound of his parents' car pulling into the driveway ended his attempt. Their movie had been cancelled (actually cancelled, I can't remember why), something which hardly ever happens in my experience. It's almost like his God was telling him not to die for this supposed "sin."

I'm glad your friend's parents got home in time.

A friend of mine from elementary and high school killed himself. I was never privy to any suicide note, but my general impression was that life in his family and his community was very difficult for him after he came out. I don't think there's ever a single cause when it comes to things like this, but I think the difficulties he encountered over his homosexuality played a role in his decision to end his life.

 

[Mike182]

Story time.

One of my best friends in the entire world came out to me about 4 years ago. I was the only person he had ever told about his homosexuality and it sounded like he was going to cry on the phone. He was so afraid. He grew up in a Catholic family and was raised to love God like any good Christian. When he found himself attracted to other guys at the start of puberty he was terrified of being disowned, damned to Hell, and rejected. He tried in vain to "change himself" and like girls, but to no avail.

He was eventually so distraught by his secret that he was nearly driven to suicide. He wrote his goodbye note, apologized to his parents for being a sin and disappointment, and went up to his room to end it. The sound of his parents' car pulling into the driveway ended his attempt. Their movie had been cancelled (actually cancelled, I can't remember why), something which hardly ever happens in my experience. It's almost like his God was telling him not to die for this supposed "sin."

After this experience he tried to cope with his feelings of Christianity and his homosexuality. He was still miserable and confused, and I am honored to this day that I was the one he chose to confide in first.

Since then he has come out to more friends, and eventually to his parents. All of our friends held our breaths when we heard he broke the news... but you know the most wonderful thing? His parents accepted him. Sure it was hard. No one can say it would be easy for Christian parents to hear something like that. To quote his Dad, "Oh, is that it? It'll take a lot more than that to make me hate you."

I think this acceptance and ability to love and understand has the mark of the divine written all over it, IMHO.

Since then I'm happy to say he's really come to terms with himself and blossomed into a very outgoing, friendly, and wonderful guy. He's accepted himself for who he is, and who he was born to be... I truly believe that sexual orientation is sometimes not something we can control. Sure, someone may decide to go "bi-curious" and try out bisexuality or homosexuality to see if it's for them. But for my friend and millions of other people worldwide, homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle choice... it's in your biology.

This is why I believe that if there is a God up there, he would lean WAY more towards the "love all creatures" and much farther away from "homosexuality is a sin." I believe any kind of love is preferable to hate.

[That was a REALLY long story. Sorry! I hope it made a difference to someone out there.]

i never contemplated suicide, but my story is very similar to this.

 

[McBell]

you don't believe me and what can i do about it? it is ok.
btw i wasnot talking about lesbians. was talking about straight couple.

How about you put a name to this alleged disease, which seems to be the foundation of your argument?

 

[madhatter85]

Because, if you believe in the God of the Bible. you would realize that he created Adam and Eve, Man and Woman to multiply and replenish the earth. human physiology was not designed with homosexuality in mind. things were desinged to work and funcion in a certain manner, everything else is, in one form or another, a perversion from the way God intended.

 

[McBell]

Because, if you believe in the God of the Bible. you would realize that he created Adam and Eve, Man and Woman to multiply and replenish the earth. human physiology was not designed with homosexuality in mind. things were desinged to work and funcion in a certain manner, everything else is, in one form or another, a perversion from the way God intended.

This argument only holds if you are going to take the position that sex is ONLY for procreation.

Otherwise it falls apart rather quickly when one takes the time and actually looks into the matter.

 

[Fluffy]

i still think the same. because it is twisted.
women are created to attract men.
why would a man go to another man?
women are certainly more esthetic and more attractive than men.

Heya lava,
I feel that, firstly, your argument does not adequately answer the question and, secondly, you have treated a secondary quality as if it were a primary quality.

Before we get to that, your argument can be simplified. You have answered the question "Who does God care about homosexuality?" by stating "it is twisted" and then go on to justify this conclusion. However, I think that this is an unnecessary step in your argument because you have not done enough to sufficiently define "twisted" as a seperate concept from "wrong" which is implied in the question. Therefore, this cannot adequately answer the question and it must be your justification for it which contains the answer.

Your justification is "women were created to attract men". If we accept this as true then I believe you have still not sufficiently explained how this entails "homosexuality is twisted/wrong".

The other day, my mp3 player broke and I wanted to open it up in order to fix it. I didn't have access to a screwdriver so I used my pen knife instead. The people who made my pen knife did not make it for the same purpose as a screwdriver yet it can still be used in this way. At the same time, it does seem reasonable to state that I am wrong to use it in this way. In order to justify this added condition, I would need an additional premise.

Therefore, returning to homosexuality, you require an additional premise that relates "women were created to attract men" to "homosexuality is twisted" and without, assuming you don't think I was wrong to use a pen knife as a screwdriver, also forming the same relationship in that similar argument.

Now turning to my second point, you state that "women are certainly more esthetic and more attractive than men." However, the qualities you state are secondary, not primary, qualities and so cannot be inherent in "women".

If I like chocolate ice cream then I might be tempted to say that "chocolate ice cream is certainly more tasty than vanilla ice cream". The existence of many people who have the opposite preference indicate that "tastiness" cannot be an inherent property of ice cream but is given to it by whoever is tasting it. Therefore, a particular flavour of ice cream is only tasty if the person who is tasting it thinks that it is tasty.

Similarly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Male heterosexuals will find women to be more attractive. Female heterosexuals will find men to be more attractive. Therefore, attractiveness cannot be inherent in either sex and must be a product of the attitude of the observer to a particular sex (i.e. their own sex + their own sexuality).

Homosexuality is prohibited in the Bible because the ancient patriarchal/agrarian societies that produced it depended on heterosexual marriage for the integrity of the state (producing warriors) and economy (legitimate children to inherit property).

Now our democratic free-market capitalist society, in a culture that highly prizes individualism, we can pretty much get along fine with any family structure.

Heya A_E,
Do you think the Bible is justified in taking these measures to protect heterosexual marriage? In other words, are you saying, therefore, that if our society suddenly reverted to similar conditions under which homosexuality was prohibited in the Bible, it would be morally right to support the prohibition of homosexuality?

If, on the other hand, this is not your position, then I do not feel you have adequately answered the question since you would have provided an answer that you do not think is justified.

because he didnt create us that way, But he still loves them thats the important thing

Heya Godsluv,
I believe you have answered "why" on a particularly trivial level.

Q: Why did you deliberately run over that person in your car?
A: Because my foot was on the accelerator and my car was going in the direction of that person

Similarly
Q: Why is homosexuality wrong?
A: Because God didn't make us that way

Yes but, more importantly,

why?

Is it indeed?

If evolution is true, then all that matters is survival and procreation.

In reality, only religious people can justly (not hypocritically) say that homosexual behaviour is alright -because they believe there's more to life then survival and procreation.

Heya Luke,
Your argument rests on the premise that "non-religious people believe that life is only about survival and procreation". I am not religious. I believe there is more to life than survival and procreation. Therefore, this premise is not true.

Paul said so.

Heya Rick,
My response to Godsluv applies here as well. Why does Paul say so?

You are largely correct in your point derived from the bestiality analogy and it is a fair and accurate analogy for the purposes you are utilising it. However, it does not resolve this more pertinent complaint.

Because, if you believe in the God of the Bible. you would realize that he created Adam and Eve, Man and Woman to multiply and replenish the earth. human physiology was not designed with homosexuality in mind. things were desinged to work and funcion in a certain manner, everything else is, in one form or another, a perversion from the way God intended.

I think this argument is much stronger than the one presented by lava because it overcomes the objection which I raised. However, I still feel it isn't completely valid.

Lets assume that God did create man and woman with the intention that man and woman would reproduce with each other. There is no logical law that allows us to to infer from this that God did not intend for us to reproduce in any other way. More generally, you can't infer not q from p. Also it should be noted that an argument from ignorance is an especially tempting method for justifying this inference but it is also not valid. Therefore, you require an extra premise which asserts that utilising science to allow 2 men to reproduce is also wrong.

 

[gnomon]

Because, if you believe in the God of the Bible. you would realize that he created Adam and Eve, Man and Woman to multiply and replenish the earth. human physiology was not designed with homosexuality in mind. things were desinged to work and funcion in a certain manner, everything else is, in one form or another, a perversion from the way God intended.

Millions of individuals believe in the God of the Bible and refute this concept.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is it indeed?

If evolution is true, then all that matters is survival and procreation.

In reality, only religious people can justly (not hypocritically) say that homosexual behaviour is alright -because they believe there's more to life then survival and procreation.

Actually, in an evolution sense, homosexual behavior is found in hundreds of species of animals, and is quite normal. And given the fact there are millions of humans, even a few hundred couples that do not reproduce will not reduce the chances of human survival.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This argument only holds if you are going to take the position that sex is ONLY for procreation.

It also only works if you assert that human physiology was directly and deliberately designed, and that the church's opinion of which functions were intended by God and which were not is correct.

Actually, in an evolution sense, homosexual behavior is found in hundreds of species of animals, and is quite normal. And given the fact there are millions of humans, even a few hundred couples that do not reproduce will not reduce the chances of human survival.

On top of that, there are more ways to pass your DNA on to the next generation than just having offspring yourself. Bees use this fact quite successfully.

 

[Bishka]

This argument only holds if you are going to take the position that sex is ONLY for procreation.

Which it isn't.....